tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4318375667051435937.post1488582841400597627..comments2023-08-25T16:13:51.356+01:00Comments on Martin In The Margins: Stop The (Second World) War!Martinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15608932251584881007noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4318375667051435937.post-69411435875265587162008-06-15T03:55:00.000+01:002008-06-15T03:55:00.000+01:00This topic reminds me of a guy named Tyler Allison...This topic reminds me of a guy named Tyler Allison from a forum I go to on Facebook (i.e. John McCain forum). This Tyler is an Obama supporter and is strongly against U.S. presence in Iraq. A few others got into an argument with him (including me) and he followed with this:<BR/><BR/>"It is amazing to me that the same people who called Kosovo a huge mistake because it needlessly placed American lives in danger (what we lose 1 person because he had a heart attack) yet think 4 thousand dead so Iraqis don't have to deal with their own government is okay.<BR/><BR/>It wasn't okay to go into Rawanda because we shouldn't get involved in other nations politics but it is okay to spent 5 years and a few trillion to give the people of Iraq something they cared so little about they never bothered to really try to be free...<BR/><BR/>Yeah that is right, I'm an America firster. I feel bad that we can't liberate the world... but we can't... especially in nations filled with people who don't know anything of freedom and don't want any.<BR/><BR/>We give them a vote and they elect terrorists... what we need is a basically secular strong man to keep the crazies in check... what we need to solve the problems in Iraq is Saddam Hussein."<BR/><BR/>Simply unbelievable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4318375667051435937.post-47729046666048398892008-06-13T14:15:00.000+01:002008-06-13T14:15:00.000+01:00Gregg:The line from the Old Man himself,about how ...Gregg:<BR/><BR/>The line from the Old Man himself,<BR/>about how it didn't matter who won WW2, as Europe was fucked anyway (or words to that effect) is more the line of thinking you are on about.<BR/><BR/>(Roots around in folders and files ...)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.revolutionary-history.co.uk/backiss/Vol1/No4/France.html" REL="nofollow">Here it is</A>, it was quoted in "With the Masses, Against the Stream: French Trotskyism in the Second World War" by Ian Birchall (Revolutionary History 1:4, Winter 1988-89) - Trotsky proving that he was well able to spout utter bollocks on occasion:<BR/><BR/>"The victory of the imperialists of Great Britain and France would not be less frightful for the ultimate fate of mankind than that of Hitler and Mussolini. Bourgeois democracy cannot be saved. By helping their bourgeoisie against foreign Fascism, the workers would only accelerate the victory of Fascism in their own country. The task posed by history is not to support one part of the imperialist system against another but to make an end of the system as a whole."<BR/><BR/>Thus, -- we see false historical perspective and incorrect abstract analysis lead inevitably to stupid concrete standpoints. Trotsky was human and not a soothsayer after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4318375667051435937.post-56583283384165908212008-06-13T07:37:00.000+01:002008-06-13T07:37:00.000+01:00(even though there were many in the 1930s, on the ...<I>(even though there were many in the 1930s, on the left as well as the right, who argued that cutting a deal with Hitler would be less awful than going to war, and who suggested - pre-echoing many on the 'indecent left' today - that Nazism was not much worse than western capitalism)</I><BR/><BR/>There were those who argued the first point, based on the horrors of WWI. I'd like you to name some of these leftists who made the second point, because I'm not aware of any. Are you perhaps thinking of those who saw Nazi imperial ambitions as not much worse than British imperialism (Orwell, for instance).Gregghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06317276919466733442noreply@blogger.com